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Anon
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23DTR Install commences.

I've started working on the engine and getting it ready for mating up with the gearbox & beam.
The actual work for the swap is pretty simple (sump, oil pick up, rocker covers, flywheel, clutch & engine mounts. However, I'm doing a bit of a "...while i'm there...." job on it, which includes a new timing chain, head gasket and associated stuff.

The engine came apart pretty happily on Friday and seems to be in quite good condition. The timing chain, pulleys and guides show no wear. The cylinder head is lightly coked. The coke on the inlet valve just wiped off, the rest is shifting quite easily with the exception of the usual hot spots. But they are fine underneath. The pre-combustion chambers are also in good condition with no cracking. The bores also look good with a very slight lip, which appear to be largely coke, but thats tomorrows job.
So in short I could have just thrown it in & all would have been fine, but I would never have known.

Is it worth doing the pre-comustion chambers while I have it out? The parts are about £40 odd, but whats involved in fitting them? Is it a specialist thing?

The allen bolt on the post that the rocker arms sit on seem very tight. Is this normal? It looks like I would unload the tension on them by winding them down?

I realised when I was doing this that every engine I've worked on to date had push rods! De-assembly ground to a halt as I couldn't find the valve spring compressor.

On the down side, by the scale in the waterways it looks as thought it may have been run with out anti freeze for a while.

Any recommendations for cleaning out the waterways?

Here are some pic's of the engine & 'head.






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Sat 23 Jun 2012 @ 20:46 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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If you decide to replace the swirl chamber inserts then they should drive out using a drift through the injector ports.

If the head is to be surface ground then new inserts should be installed first.

Insert protrusion should be 0.04 mm ( 0.0016 inch) maximum.

If only replacing inserts without the head being surface ground then the chamber flange seating face or cylinder head recess seating face should be machined the requisite amount.

Loose inserts can be held in place using high melting point grease when installing head; once it's on they'll stay put.

Allen socket posts are tight so that they don't budge once valve clearances are adjusted. (A lot easier than early arrangement of 2 nuts on each valve stem.)

Posts can be wound down to release rocker arms so that camshaft can be removed but the recommended method is to compress the valve springs using a lever tool between camshaft and valve spring caps (or adjuster nuts on early heads).

Scale in water passages doesn't look so bad. When the engine is installed cooling system cleaner (e.g. Wynns) might be enough to clean it out.

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Sun 24 Jun 2012 @ 09:14 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Thanks again Phil.

Sounds like a trip to the machine shop is in order to do the chambers properly either way, unless I get lucky with the clearances on the replacement parts. Hmmm...........

Does it look something like this:



I was hoping to get away with cleaning out the waterways in that manner.
Sun 24 Jun 2012 @ 09:44 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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That's the rascal; looks like there's some cracks around the throat too. Remove the glow plugs before they get damaged ...

If you're going to renew the core plugs then that's the time to rake out any loose scale & forrin bodies.

As long as all the coolant passages are clear where you can get at them Wynns Cooling System Flush should clean out remaining scale. (I use it in preference to others because it's acid free & chelating agents in the mix keep solids in suspension so that they come out when the system is drained.)

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Sun 24 Jun 2012 @ 10:36 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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I wasn't planning on doing the core plugs - I've got to draw the line somewhere! It's always a toss up between doing the job properly and knowing when to stop.

Would your recommendation be to change the pre chambers while I have it out? I'm a little concerned about opening up a wallet haemorrhaging can of worms.

I gather there is a sacrificial washer under the injectors that I will need to replace when I refit them?

I figure the glow plugs will need to come out to drive out the chamber, too. I was thinking about replacing them while the head was off and perhaps putting in some hotter ones to help starting it on vege.

The Haynes manual makes no reference to what to do with the head once its off other than take it to a specialist.

I have some Holts 2 stage rad clean on the shelf which I'll probably use to save on buying some more, but I take onboard your recommendation. I've got some small bottle brush type brushes in long (2ft) flexible shafts which I'll use while its in bits.
Sun 24 Jun 2012 @ 12:20 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Ding a core plug using hammer on a 6mm flat face steel drift: if the drift bounces off then the plug should be ok but if it makes a depression then it may be best to renew the lot. There's nothing worse than having to get at weeping core plugs once the engine is installed and they're not that expensive. Try your local machine shop - often a lot cheaper buying what you need by size than engine set.

Swirl chambers with cracks showing before they're removed are the ones to worry about especially if the cracks look like they could join up leading to bits of chamber dropping out.

Original glow plugs should run hot enough for starting on veg oil.

Check whether the pump is ok on veg oil though - I think the VE pump is one of the types that won't like it (incompatible seals?) but it's a while since I did any research.

Injector sealing washer under the copper washer should be renewed; copper washer is best renewed at the same time.

Holts 2-stage uses citric acid for the first stage so should be ok. (Mineral acids are the ones to avoid.)

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Sun 24 Jun 2012 @ 13:19 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Bosch V.E. is good to go with vege. http://www.biomotors.co.uk/CarsVansV.html#Opel. I wouldn't be doing this otherwise.

The std plugs will start it on vege but given that mineral diesel self combusts at around 200 deg C and vege about 300 deg C, the hotter plugs do help. I'm trying to avoid twin tanking it if I can. My current van is twin tanked (triple actually) which works Ok, but its just easier if I don't have to faff about with all the change over valves etc.

I reckon the chambers are OK in that case, but I'll sleep on it. Also playing on my mind is that they seem to take 10 days to get hold of.

I took 7 of the valves out today. The tool broke while doing the last one - I did buy it form Halfords so I shouldn't really be too surprised.

I'll check the core plugs tomorrow.


Sun 24 Jun 2012 @ 19:14 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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I didn't know veg oil conversions had gotten so organised. Excellent.

Also, on reflection, the latent heat of vapourisation being greater for veg oil could cool standard glow plugs below the ignition temperature - they can go from cherry red to blue using dino diesel - so if you're not twin tanking then hotter glow plugs would be better.

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Sun 24 Jun 2012 @ 19:36 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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I checked the core plugs and the seem pretty good. I've made an executive decision not to change the swirl chambers and have re-assembled the head. The exhaust valves lapped in nicely but the intake took a bit more work and are now OK, but not brilliant.
Those pedestal bolts are a mighty tight tolerance .

Any way, what does one usually do with the oil child thingey on top of the cam shaft? The 23dtr has a metal shield on the front 1/2 an the breather on the back. The Bedford Rocker has the breather up front and I don't know what at the back.


Frontera head with metal cover thingey at top. Frontera rocker cover in the middle. Beddy rocker cover at the bottom.

I'm thinking that I transfer the metal thing to the back of the cam and modify (i.e. chop off the last couple of inches) to fit (right of the final bolt hole). Any thoughts?



Wed 27 Jun 2012 @ 21:48 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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I think that you could be making a good move: the thingey is an oil deflector that directs oil spray onto the camshaft.

I've only seen one piece full length metal deflectors on CFs, attached like the Frontera one, so having part of the deflector in the cover could be an improvement to deter oil escaping via the ventilation system.

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Thu 28 Jun 2012 @ 08:00 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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philbradshaw wrote:
That's the rascal; looks like there's some cracks around the throat too. Remove the glow plugs before they get damaged ...

I should have said, but I just lifted that photo from the 'net. The chambers are good on my head.

I've de-coked and lapped in the head and block and its all looking pretty good - well, a lot better anyway.
It all starts going back together today!

On that note..... the Bedford sump I have is missing the dip stick. I have the Frontera one but A, I can't get it off the sump & B, the sump is a lot deeper so it probably won't work any way.

Does any one have a Diesel dipstick they could measure for me? Or, even better one they'd like to sell me?

Also, can anyone tell me the oil capacity of the Bedford Diesel engine? The Frontera is 5.5L but the sump is the size of a block of flats.
Mon 02 Jul 2012 @ 09:36 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Kooda wrote:
can anyone tell me the oil capacity of the Bedford Diesel engine?

Tech Data.

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Mon 02 Jul 2012 @ 11:18 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
bluebedouin
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Kooda wrote:
...Does any one have a Diesel dipstick they could measure for me? ...

Take a look here .

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Mon 02 Jul 2012 @ 12:02 View bluebedouin   Email bluebedouin   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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bluebedouin wrote:
Kooda wrote:
...Does any one have a Diesel dipstick they could measure for me? ...

Take a look here .


Thank You!
Mon 02 Jul 2012 @ 13:36 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Ok, I've deciphered all that & have a question:

How long is the tube that sticks out of the sump? With this dim I can work out how far the end of the dipstick is from the bottom of the sump and start bodging.
Wed 04 Jul 2012 @ 21:30 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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I re-installed the Injector Pump today and having not done this before I'd like to clarify a few things if I may........

I read the Frontera Manual & decided "its just like installing a distributor".
I'm guessing the mark on the ease of the drive spline (see photo below) aligns the with injector hose that it is squirting into? The manual makes no mention of this mark.



What I did was: Eyeballed the mark so that it was approaching the hose to No.1 cylinder (as shown in the pic) just as the gauge started moving then put the pump on the engine & engaged the spline. Then turning over the engine & twisting the base of the pump set the lift at TDC to 0.85mm.

The gauge will go past 0.85mm up to just over 2mm, which is happening ATDC. Is this how it should be?
Tue 24 Jul 2012 @ 22:02 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Err... Just reading this:

http://www.dieselbombers.com/1st-generation-dodge-cummins-89-93/21942-bosch-ve-pump-operation.html

Says max squirt is after TDC so I guess the max opening should be later on.
Tue 24 Jul 2012 @ 22:18 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
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