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Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	1984 CF motorhome - Engine Runs like a pig after 40 mins Hello All I hope someone can help..... I've got a 1984 CF Motorhome with a 2.3L petrol engine (slant) It starts and runs really well, but after about 40 mins the engine will start to 'fluff' and miss a beat. Then when I pull away at junctions it will sometimes cutout as soon as I start to press the accelerator and the last time I used it when it was doing this it ran like a pig with no acceleration and loads of stuttering. Left it for and hour or so and it ran fine again till almost home. I thought it might have been a fuel problem and the 1st few times it did it, So I took the top of the carb off and cleaned it out. Found a bit of muck in the float chamber so fitted a fuel filter and cleaned the little filter in the carb and checked 2 of the jets. Did a few short journeys and It felt good, so I thought I'd sorted it until last weekend when we took it out on a longer trip (luckily not to far!) The Fuel filter looked clean but only fills about half way. So dont think its a fuel problem as it will start instantly when it dies and ticks over nicely unless I put load on the engine by pulling away etc and i've since been told that it could be leads or the coil breaking down when they get hot. SO I've replaced the leads and funny enough found a new coil boxed up behind the front seat. The coil is a XIC8025 12V and it says 'ONLY USE WITH 1.5ohms RESISTANCE' on it. I've looked for a resister on the original coil. but cant see one. If one is fitted where would it be? I have a spitfire that uses one so am I looking for a White block in-line with the coil and on the + side somewhere on the white wire? I put a voltmeter on the + and - of the coil as it was started and got 12V and it remained at 12V whilst running. If it uses a resister than shouldn't it drop down to about 6V once its running? If the original coil that's fitted doesn't use the resister what's the part number for the coil that I should replace it with as I'd blow the XIC8025 coil if I did use that wouldnt I? Is there a way to test if a coil is failing? I've only ever had them fail completely. Thanks For any advice or info that helps diagnose the problem. :-) Andrew ----------------------
Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 17:50
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	I think I am right in saying a 1984 will have the Bosch electronic distributor fitted (red dizzy top with no points). If so a 1.5 ohm coil will not work correctly, you need one rated at less than 1.4 ohm - normally 0.7-0.9 ohm. The Bosch system uses a 12V feed rather then a balsated 8-9V feed, so you would expect 12V at the coil when running. I run mine on 12V straight off the fuse box (7.5A in line fuse). What is the resistance of your current coil (across the LT terminals). You can get generic coils suitable for electronic ignition off ebay. Funnily enough I had the same problem last weekend (tried new coils to no avail)- but got really Peeeed off with the whole system (I had the old Delco points dizzy) so swapped it all out for a Bosch one and new leads. so far so good...
Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 18:30
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Oh, and the resistor on balasted systems on the CF is a wire taped into the loom just past the bulkhead - not a separate resistor block - that's why you couldn't find one. I still think your model year runs a 12V ignition though. can someone confirm this?
Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 18:32
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Hi Philbut Thanks for the reply No, the Distributor cap is black with a big black round rotor arm inside. I'll try and measure the internal resistance of both coils tomorrow as a comparison. So if it does have a ballast resister fitted, it would be covered over by the wire loom tape?
Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 19:31
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	coils. HiAmwolfy, If the coil is the wrong one and it is an older points system it will burn out the points and they will stick together, check the condensor as well. Doug. ----------------------
Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 20:30
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Amwolfy wrote: No, the Distributor cap is black with a big black round rotor arm inside. I'll try and measure the internal resistance of both coils tomorrow as a comparison. So if it does have a ballast resister fitted, it would be covered over by the wire loom tape? ah, you have the older Delco dizzy then. The coil should be 1.5 ohm as standard - if it is a 3 ohm coil then someone has deleted the ballast resistor already (or fitted the wrong coil!). And yes, you need to peel back the tape over the loom to find the resistor wire - so easier to take a 12V feed straight from the fuse box if you want to use a non - balast coil (3 ohm resistance). To test for a balast setup, connect your meter across the LT terminal and BRIFELY short the negative terminal to earth with ignition on. Don't leave it shorted for too long as the coil can overheat. A reading of 12V means you have no ballast, 8v or so means you still have the ballast.
Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 23:29
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Hi It sounds like you have the delco coil as Philbut says it should be a balast resistor coil which should have a 8/9 volt feed except when cranking it gets a 12 volt feed from the starter motor. If its running on 12 volts the coil will get hot and this is what is causing the problem,the resistor wire is in the headlight loom,you can either sort that out or put a standard 12 volt coil on and run it that way. Dave ----------------------
Thu 20 Sep 2012 @ 08:39
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Here's a different theory.... Breathing - does your fuel tank breath? if the fuel tank cannot breath it will slowly form a vacuum till the fuel pump will start to lose the fight to suck up fuel. next time you get to your 'rough running' patch take the fuel filler cap off and listen for an inrush of air. ----------------------
Mon 24 Sep 2012 @ 18:48
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Bedford CF 350 Camper/Motorhome 1984 Hello I part own the above and it runs exactly like yours ( like a pig). After I set off it gets hot and the description you gave is exactly the same it comes to a lumpy stop!! It has had a conversion for unleaded and I was wondering if it was that. Has yours been converted ? I know this is no help to you but it is a bit of a comfort knowing that I am not alone. It has been towed home so many times I loose count. The weird thing is that before it was converted it ran like a dream. Really loathe to move it on as I love it to bits. Any suggestions would be really welcome Florence ----------------------
Thu 11 Oct 2012 @ 00:07
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Hi Andrew and Florece,if it runs for about 40 minutes then gives the problems and after cooling down it runs ok this could be the coil overheating, if you have a spare coil next time it happens change the coil and see if that makes a difference. Dave ----------------------
Thu 11 Oct 2012 @ 08:12
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Hi All Thanks for your help so far. Unfortunately its still not running very well and is worse going by the lastest test drive :-( The latest is.... I've replaced the original coil for a new one and with a meter the voltage on the coil when its shorted out as described above by Philbut (thanks), drops from 12v to 4.7v when shorted out and that sounds far to low to me so I fitted another coil (non ballast type) so by passing the resister. The Non ballast coil has been fitted next to the original and is an Intermotor 1104. This is a non resister coil and the positive as been wired directly to the 3 on the fuse box. The idea being that if the original setup started to fuff or miss I could pull over and swap the -neg lead and the HT lead over to the new set up. When I did have to do the swap on that test drive the non ballast coil took a bit to start but ran great for about 5 miles until 100yrd from home (lucky for me) than ran like a dog again and back fired a couple of times. So in the end it didnt prove much. I have since fitted NEW.... Coil, HT leads, plugs (NGK BPR6FS), condenser, Rotor arm (new old stock as been told new can be rubbish) Checked points gap (didn't change them as they look new and points look clean and smooth) Lub'd distributor weights Took top of carb off and cleaned fuel bowl area out. Had slight bits in despite fuel filter and tested float valve. Did a quick timing check before it had warmed up and it was about 8' but when I remembered to remove the vacuum pipe it cutout. The battery then died so I had to stop and charge it before I could do the test drive below. On the latest test-drive I again started off with the Org Resister coil setup. So was a bit P'd off when instead of taking 40 ish mins before playing up it was as soon as I turned the 2nd corner and onto the main road! it cutout and took a while to start, where as until the last two test drives it would start again instantly. So I jumped out as was on a main road and swapped over the wires to the other coil. It started after a few turns. I then just drove around my side roads and intermittently it would run great and then crap, cutting out, juddering with absolutely no power (but only one back fire during the 15min drive so shouldn't have annoyed the neighbours too much) So my next dry day things to do will be to carry out a compression check and recheck the timing once its warmed up. I know the timing should be about 9' but if the timing is out it wouldn't give intermittently poor running would it? Once the engine has warmed up, the engine should continue to run ok on idle when I remove the vacuum pipe shouldn't or do I check the timing with it connected? Anything else I should look at or check as I'm running out of ideas :-( Cheers :-]
Sun 21 Oct 2012 @ 00:47
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	The coil you have wired the positive to no 3 fuse must be a 12 volt coil not a ballast resistor coil or it will overheat and run like a pig, have you checked the earth wire in your dizzy under the base plate it definately sound like ignition to me. Dave ----------------------
Sun 21 Oct 2012 @ 10:28
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	runing rough Hi Amwolfy,I had asimular prob.If you have points take them out and check that the revit holding them together is tight.i:e nurl it over with a hammer and punch.If it is loose it will not make a good electrical conection.Cheers+Beers Jim. ----------------------
Sun 21 Oct 2012 @ 15:57
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Bedford Motorhome now running fine Hi Thank you so much for advice Motorhome is now up and running well with no overhaeting. It's brilliant. Sorry for the delay in replying but as running so well decided to go away in it. Even got caught in traffic jam and then a mile down the road followed a traction engine, normally we would have been causing a traffic jam as we would have broken down but no problems at all. My co owner Alan fitted a 12v coil direct via the ignition. He removed the 6v coil and ballast resister and bypassed the loom resister , direct 12v via ignition. The ballast resister in the wiring loom was causing the problem. Preciously we had fitted the following which made no difference at all new fuel pump new fuel lines canged ballast resister and coil twice condenser and points twice new set of plug leads new distributor cap and rotor removed the electronic ignition back to orig spec. reverted back to orig AC plugs checked dwell angle and timing both were correct So as you can imagine we were running out of ideas. We are both happy campers now . Hope this makes sense Angie TEXT TEXT ----------------------
Tue 23 Oct 2012 @ 12:48
Anon Deleted Posts : Location : Status : Offline	Hi Florence, Glad to hear your up and running ok now and like I said in my first reply to this thread was to put a 12volt coil on and wire it to no 3 fuse by doing this you have not only cured your problem but also stopped another problem occurring. I had a problem with my camper, some times it would start and other times it wouldn't, when running on a ballast coil you get 12volt from the starter when cranking the engine but if the solenoid contact isn't good inside the cap then you don't get 12volts when cranking and it wont start thats why I put a 12volt coil on mine and wired it to No3 fuse. Dave ----------------------
Wed 24 Oct 2012 @ 08:50
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Anon
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1984 CF motorhome - Engine Runs like a pig after 40 mins

Hello All

I hope someone can help.....

I've got a 1984 CF Motorhome with a 2.3L petrol engine (slant)
It starts and runs really well, but after about 40 mins the engine will start to 'fluff' and miss a beat. Then when I pull away at junctions it will sometimes cutout as soon as I start to press the accelerator and the last time I used it when it was doing this it ran like a pig with no acceleration and loads of stuttering. Left it for and hour or so and it ran fine again till almost home.
I thought it might have been a fuel problem and the 1st few times it did it, So I took the top of the carb off and cleaned it out. Found a bit of muck in the float chamber so fitted a fuel filter and cleaned the little filter in the carb and checked 2 of the jets. Did a few short journeys and It felt good, so I thought I'd sorted it until last weekend when we took it out on a longer trip (luckily not to far!)

The Fuel filter looked clean but only fills about half way.
So dont think its a fuel problem as it will start instantly when it dies and ticks over nicely unless I put load on the engine by pulling away etc and i've since been told that it could be leads or the coil breaking down when they get hot. SO I've replaced the leads and funny enough found a new coil boxed up behind the front seat.
The coil is a XIC8025 12V and it says 'ONLY USE WITH 1.5ohms RESISTANCE' on it. I've looked for a resister on the original coil. but cant see one.
If one is fitted where would it be?
I have a spitfire that uses one so am I looking for a White block in-line with the coil and on the + side somewhere on the white wire?

I put a voltmeter on the + and - of the coil as it was started and got 12V and it remained at 12V whilst running.
If it uses a resister than shouldn't it drop down to about 6V once its running?

If the original coil that's fitted doesn't use the resister what's the part number for the coil that I should replace it with as I'd blow the XIC8025 coil if I did use that wouldnt I?

Is there a way to test if a coil is failing? I've only ever had them fail completely.

Thanks For any advice or info that helps diagnose the problem. :-)

Andrew

----------------------

Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 17:50

Anon
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I think I am right in saying a 1984 will have the Bosch electronic distributor fitted (red dizzy top with no points). If so a 1.5 ohm coil will not work correctly, you need one rated at less than 1.4 ohm - normally 0.7-0.9 ohm. The Bosch system uses a 12V feed rather then a balsated 8-9V feed, so you would expect 12V at the coil when running. I run mine on 12V straight off the fuse box (7.5A in line fuse). What is the resistance of your current coil (across the LT terminals). You can get generic coils suitable for electronic ignition off ebay.

Funnily enough I had the same problem last weekend (tried new coils to no avail)- but got really Peeeed off with the whole system (I had the old Delco points dizzy) so swapped it all out for a Bosch one and new leads. so far so good...

Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 18:30

Anon
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Oh, and the resistor on balasted systems on the CF is a wire taped into the loom just past the bulkhead - not a separate resistor block - that's why you couldn't find one. I still think your model year runs a 12V ignition though. can someone confirm this?

Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 18:32

Anon
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Hi Philbut

Thanks for the reply

No, the Distributor cap is black with a big black round rotor arm inside.

I'll try and measure the internal resistance of both coils tomorrow as a comparison.

So if it does have a ballast resister fitted, it would be covered over by the wire loom tape?

Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 19:31

Anon
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coils.

HiAmwolfy,

If the coil is the wrong one and it is an older points system it will burn out the points and they will stick together, check the condensor as well.

Doug.

----------------------

Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 20:30

Anon
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Amwolfy wrote:

No, the Distributor cap is black with a big black round rotor arm inside.

I'll try and measure the internal resistance of both coils tomorrow as a comparison.

So if it does have a ballast resister fitted, it would be covered over by the wire loom tape?

ah, you have the older Delco dizzy then. The coil should be 1.5 ohm as standard - if it is a 3 ohm coil then someone has deleted the ballast resistor already (or fitted the wrong coil!). And yes, you need to peel back the tape over the loom to find the resistor wire - so easier to take a 12V feed straight from the fuse box if you want to use a non - balast coil (3 ohm resistance).

To test for a balast setup, connect your meter across the LT terminal and BRIFELY short the negative terminal to earth with ignition on. Don't leave it shorted for too long as the coil can overheat. A reading of 12V means you have no ballast, 8v or so means you still have the ballast.

Wed 19 Sep 2012 @ 23:29

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

Hi It sounds like you have the delco coil as Philbut says it should be a balast resistor coil which should have a 8/9 volt feed except when cranking it gets a 12 volt feed from the starter motor. If its running on 12 volts the coil will get hot and this is what is causing the problem,the resistor wire is in the headlight loom,you can either sort that out or put a standard 12 volt coil on and run it that way.
Dave

----------------------

Thu 20 Sep 2012 @ 08:39

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
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Here's a different theory....

Breathing - does your fuel tank breath? if the fuel tank cannot breath it will slowly form a vacuum till the fuel pump will start to lose the fight to suck up fuel.

next time you get to your 'rough running' patch take the fuel filler cap off and listen for an inrush of air.

----------------------

Mon 24 Sep 2012 @ 18:48

Anon
Deleted
Posts :
Location :
Status : Offline

Bedford CF 350 Camper/Motorhome 1984

Hello

I part own the above and it runs exactly like yours ( like a pig). After I set off it gets hot and the description you gave is exactly the same it comes to a lumpy stop!! It has had a conversion for unleaded and I was wondering if it was that. Has yours been converted ?

I know this is no help to you but it is a bit of a comfort knowing that I am not alone.

It has been towed home so many times I loose count. The weird thing is that before it was converted it ran like a dream. Really loathe to move it on as I love it to bits.

Any suggestions would be really welcome

Florence

----------------------

Thu 11 Oct 2012 @ 00:07

Anon
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Hi Andrew and Florece,if it runs for about 40 minutes then gives the problems and after cooling down it runs ok this could be the coil overheating, if you have a spare coil next time it happens change the coil and see if that makes a difference.
Dave

----------------------

Thu 11 Oct 2012 @ 08:12

Anon
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Posts :
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Status : Offline

Hi All

Thanks for your help so far. Unfortunately its still not running very well and is worse going by the lastest test drive :-(

The latest is....

I've replaced the original coil for a new one and with a meter the voltage on the coil when its shorted out as described above by Philbut (thanks), drops from 12v to 4.7v when shorted out and that sounds far to low to me so I fitted another coil (non ballast type) so by passing the resister.

The Non ballast coil has been fitted next to the original and is an Intermotor 1104. This is a non resister coil and the positive as been wired directly to the 3 on the fuse box. The idea being that if the original setup started to fuff or miss I could pull over and swap the -neg lead and the HT lead over to the new set up.
When I did have to do the swap on that test drive the non ballast coil took a bit to start but ran great for about 5 miles until 100yrd from home (lucky for me) than ran like a dog again and back fired a couple of times. So in the end it didnt prove much.

I have since fitted NEW.... Coil, HT leads, plugs (NGK BPR6FS), condenser, Rotor arm (new old stock as been told new can be rubbish)
Checked points gap (didn't change them as they look new and points look clean and smooth)
Lub'd distributor weights
Took top of carb off and cleaned fuel bowl area out. Had slight bits in despite fuel filter and tested float valve.
Did a quick timing check before it had warmed up and it was about 8' but when I remembered to remove the vacuum pipe it cutout.
The battery then died so I had to stop and charge it before I could do the test drive below.

On the latest test-drive I again started off with the Org Resister coil setup. So was a bit P'd off when instead of taking 40 ish mins before playing up it was as soon as I turned the 2nd corner and onto the main road! it cutout and took a while to start, where as until the last two test drives it would start again instantly. So I jumped out as was on a main road and swapped over the wires to the other coil. It started after a few turns. I then just drove around my side roads and intermittently it would run great and then crap, cutting out, juddering with absolutely no power (but only one back fire during the 15min drive so shouldn't have annoyed the neighbours too much)

So my next dry day things to do will be to carry out a compression check and recheck the timing once its warmed up.
I know the timing should be about 9' but if the timing is out it wouldn't give intermittently poor running would it?
Once the engine has warmed up, the engine should continue to run ok on idle when I remove the vacuum pipe shouldn't or do I check the timing with it connected?

Anything else I should look at or check as I'm running out of ideas :-(

Cheers
:-]

Sun 21 Oct 2012 @ 00:47

Anon
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The coil you have wired the positive to no 3 fuse must be a 12 volt coil not a ballast resistor coil or it will overheat and run like a pig, have you checked the earth wire in your dizzy under the base plate it definately sound like ignition to me.
Dave

----------------------

Sun 21 Oct 2012 @ 10:28

Anon
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runing rough

Hi Amwolfy,I had asimular prob.If you have points take them out and check that the revit holding them together is tight.i:e nurl it over with a hammer and punch.If it is loose it will not make a good electrical conection.Cheers+Beers Jim.

----------------------

Sun 21 Oct 2012 @ 15:57

Anon
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Status : Offline

Bedford Motorhome now running fine

Hi

Thank you so much for advice

Motorhome is now up and running well with no overhaeting. It's brilliant. Sorry for the delay in replying but as running so well decided to go away in it. Even got caught in traffic jam and then a mile down the road followed a traction engine, normally we would have been causing a traffic jam as we would have broken down but no problems at all.

My co owner Alan fitted a 12v coil direct via the ignition. He removed the 6v coil and ballast resister and bypassed the loom resister , direct 12v via ignition. The ballast resister in the wiring loom was causing the problem.

Preciously we had fitted the following which made no difference at all

new fuel pump
new fuel lines
canged ballast resister and coil twice
condenser and points twice
new set of plug leads
new distributor cap and rotor
removed the electronic ignition back to orig spec.
reverted back to orig AC plugs
checked dwell angle and timing both were correct

So as you can imagine we were running out of ideas. We are both happy campers now . Hope this makes sense

Angie

TEXT TEXT

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Tue 23 Oct 2012 @ 12:48

Anon
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Status : Offline

Hi Florence, Glad to hear your up and running ok now and like I said in my first reply to this thread was to put a 12volt coil on and wire it to no 3 fuse by doing this you have not only cured your problem but also stopped another problem occurring. I had a problem with my camper, some times it would start and other times it wouldn't, when running on a ballast coil you get 12volt from the starter when cranking the engine but if the solenoid contact isn't good inside the cap then you don't get 12volts when cranking and it wont start thats why I put a 12volt coil on mine and wired it to No3 fuse.
Dave

----------------------

Wed 24 Oct 2012 @ 08:50

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